Oral Histories

Interview of Deena Metzger

Novelist, poet, essayist, and teacher.
Series:
Z: Orphan Interviews after 1999
Topic:
Literature
Biographical Note:
Novelist, poet, essayist, and teacher.
Interviewer:
Collings, Jane
Interviewee:
Metzger, Deena
Persons Present:
Metzger and Collings.
Place Conducted:
Metzger's home in Topanga, California.
Supporting Documents:
Records relating to the interview are located in the office of the UCLA Library’s Center for Oral History Research.
Interviewer Background and Preparation:
The interview was conducted by Jane Collings, principal editor and interviewer, UCLA Center for Oral History Research; Ph.D., Critical Studies in Film and Television, UCLA.
Processing of Interview:
The transcript is a verbatim transcription of the recording. It was transcribed by a professional transcribing agency using a list of proper names and specialized terminology supplied by the interviewer. Metzger was then given an opportunity to review the transcript and made a few corrections and additions. Those corrections were entered into the text without further editing or review on the part of the Center for Oral History Research staff.
Length:
13.25 hrs.
Language:
English
Copyright:
Interviewee Retained Copyright
Audio:
Early life in Seagate--A warm sense of community and friendship with women--Metzger's parents' interest in Yiddish culture, particularly theater--Parents' background--Father's enthusiasm for publishing poetry and literature--Mother's generosity in sharing food with neighbors--Political and arts conversations at home--Political climate at time of Metzger's birth--Joanna Macy's exercise asking people to meditate on their birth year and place--A consistency in the political concerns that have motivated Metzger--Parents' sense of political consciousness--A politically active community in Seagate--An early memory of seeing a spirit--A monolingual Yiddish speaker until formal schooling--Makes friends with the neighborhood "security guard"--Pursuits and hobbies as a child--Mother's abilities as a seamstress--Parents’ hopes for Metzger--Metzger's abilities as a scholar--The demographics of Seagate--Civic groups in Seagate grouped along class lines--Religious breakdown within Jewish communities in Seagate--Father starts a short-lived Yiddish studies children's class--Friday night cultural and political discussions at the Metzger home led by Metzger's father--A fourth-grade friend's remark starts Metzger thinking about college--Attends Brandeis University--A love affair while at college--Parent's refusal to allow Metzger to continue at Brandeis--Light shows in the sixties--The importance of bringing politics into one's work during the sixties--Metzger's matrix for deciding what to review for the L.A. Free Press--The Vietnam War protest staged at La Cienega Boulevard art galleries--Poetry readings and teach-ins against the war--More on selecting what to cover at the L.A. Free Press--L.A. as a site of political radicalism--The Century City anti-war protest in 1968--FBI infiltration of the Century City protest--The particular character of the culture of the left in L.A.--Sense of optimism that it was possible to effect social change in the sixties--The sense of alarm brought on by the nuclear age and its dangers--Sense of insecurity about abilities as a teacher--Teaching philosophy--Breaks up a student fight on campus--Ethnic and racial makeup of Metzger's community college classes--Metzger's curriculum--Metzger writes a teacher's bill of rights--Teaching in the context of the Vietnam War--The start of Copper Canyon Press--Police brutality at the Sunset Boulevard riots against the war--Metzger engages a policeman beating a young man--The optimism of the age--Flavio Cabral's reaction to being kicked by a policeman at the riot
Moves to L.A. to get married--Meets Barbara Meyerhoff--Introduced to early music by Ruth and Sam Adams--Finds Meyerhoff to be of like mind--Future husband, Reed Metzger--Begins work as a social worker in South Los Angeles--Political activism--Sense of Los Angeles as a place for re-invention--Activism in favor of disarmament--Organizes write-in anti-nuclear presidential candidate--A busy life encompassing politics, art, and motherhood--Conducts therapy with adults whose parents had been blacklisted--Meets Anais Nin in 1964--Publishes a review of Nin's Collage for the L.A. Free Press--A first encounter with Nin grows into a deep friendship--Nin's encouragement of Metzger's writing--Nin's devotion to the feminine voice--Running errands with Nin in Los Angeles--A visit to Arthur Miller's home when Nin and Miller exchange each other’s letters to retain what they had each written--Metzger's belief that the life of the writer must be of a piece with the work--Visits Julio Cortazar to determine whether he is resonant with the stories he had written--A handwritten and illustrated special edition book by Henry Miller and Bezalel Schatz's into the night life, a gift from Anais Nin--Metzger's sense from early on that as a woman she had full agency, was not in need of feminist thought per se--Begins to write for the L.A. Free Press--A deep friendship with Nin, rather than a mentor/mentee relationship--Nin's advice to Metzger on writing--Meyerhoff's interpretation of Metzger's dream--Nin's concern that Metzger would go "too far" in the "reality of the imagination"--Antonin Artaud--Metzger's current work with dream interpretation--Metzger's dare healing circles--More on meeting Barbara Meyerhoff--Work at L.A. Free Press brings Metzger into direct contact with the ferment in Los Angeles in the late sixties--Husband's leftist political values--The environment of ferment in the political and artistic culture in L.A. in the sixties--Anais Nin's efforts to get Carlos Castaneda's book The Teachings of Don Juan published--Barbara Meyerhoff's work--Metzger's initial sense of "difference" between indigenous culture and her own shifts into a sense of alignment--Metzger's lifelong commitment to social justice and social change--Sense that humanity needs spiritual help to fix the mess we've made--Idle No More--An academic freedom case involving Metzger at Los Angeles Valley College that centers on the notion of intent and pornography--The involvement of politicians Kenneth Washington, Jerry Brown and Mike Antonovich in the academic freedom case--Crafting the legal argument to make it a landmark academic freedom case--Attorney David Finkel--More on crafting the legal argument--Surveillance of Metzger affects her life--Strategies for the trial--A Saturday Night Live spoof of the trial--Outcome of the trial--Media coverage of the trial.
Pregnancy--Writes a first novel--Juggles motherhood, housework, graduate school, and activism--Concerns about radiation contamination and its effect on children--Metzger is driven to do anything she engages in superbly--Writes several articles of literary criticism--Learns confidence--Child care--Travels in a liberal social circle--Husband's expectations of a wife's role--Routine as a young mother--Conflicts with administrators of kids' school--The Wolf Boy--Concerns with precepts of the public educational system--First novels explore notions of multiple intelligence--Admires The White Bone--Metzger's prescient sense of her time--Metzger's writing style--Discovers Latin American literature, a watershed moment--Anais Nin's discovery of D.H. Lawrence--What Rough Beast--The L.A. Free Press--Ed Sanders--The counterculture allows for the discovery of new perspectives on society--The role of drugs in the counterculture--Light shows--In seeking material for reviews, looks for theatrical and literary pieces that reflect the political edge of the time--An art protest against the Vietnam War--Teach-ins against the war at universities--The excitement of art meeting culture at the time--The Pentagon Papers--A large antiwar protest in Century City in 1968--An FBI informant within the group--Cultural elements in L.A. that helped foster a political movement--More on the Free Press--The way that the Vietnam War and its aftermath changed culture--Metzger's surprise that she achieves an excellent score on a teaching credential exam--Trepidation in beginning teaching--Develops a teaching style and philosophy while at Los Angeles Valley College--Teaches an essay by John Paul Sartre on the notion of freedom--Publishes "A Teacher Bill of Rights"--The issue of college grades in relation to draft deferral--A student of Metzger's serves in Vietnam and is killed--Metzger's profound commitment to her students--Sam Hamill--The formation of Copper Canyon Press--The Sunset Strip riots.
Takes a job at California Institute of the Arts (CalArts) in 1964--Groundbreaking faculty at CalArts at that time--The opportunities to invent new courses at CalArts--Teaches a journal writing class at CalArts--The Los Angeles Valley College students as compared to the CalArts students--Memorable students at CalArts--Commitment to bringing valuable content to the students at L.A. Valley College--Structural difference between conduct of classes at CalArts and L.A. Valley College--The pedagogical universe at the Woman's Building--Metzger's profound engagement with the notion of a "women's culture"--Engagement with work by women writers--Seeks to identify female forms of writing--Finds particular meaning in the work of Virginia Woolf--Milan Kundera's Immortality--More on the forms of expression of women's culture--Structural confinements at CalArts—Womanhouse--The women who came to the Woman's Building--The impact of Womanhouse--The excitement of coming to do the writing program at the Woman's Building--The students and the work in the writing workshop at the Woman's Building--Metzger's dissertation on women's culture--Topics at consciousness raising sessions at the Woman's Building--Dearth of women writers in curriculum at that time--Anais Nin's response to the work at the Woman's Building--Nin's support of Metzger during the academic freedom case--The immense contribution of Judy Chicago--Tensions between heterosexual and gay communities at the Woman's Building--Suzanne Lacy--The secrecy surrounding rape, particularly at that time--Metzger's own rape experience at L.A. Valley College--The advent of rape crisis clinics in the United States--A panel on rape at the American Psychiatric Association--The opening up of discussion about taboo subjects--Navigating the transformative cultural experience within the context of motherhood and marriage--David Kunzle--Involvement with political struggle in Chile--Engagement with Latin American literature, politics, and culture--The coup in Chile, September 11, 1973--The Cuban missile crisis.
Meets Sheila de Bretteville--The nature of women's culture--Metzger's parents’ pride in Metzger's accomplishments--Father's work as a writer, editor, and printer--A play, Not As Sleepwalkers, looks at extended family relationships--The "imprisonment" of women in suburban lives--The role of Yiddish culture in providing a voice for women--The counterculture's interest in mysticism and social structure in indigenous societies--Concerns about the economic and social situation of women--The power of consciousness raising--The backdrop of the Vietnam War protests--More on the power of consciousness raising--The power of support groups—Writing--Skin: Shadow, Silence; A Love Letter in the Form of a Novel--Experiments with form in Skin: Shadow, Silence--Metzger addresses issue of women's sexuality in her writing--A passage from the book that Metzger read at American Psychiatric Association meeting that deals with the issue of rape--The devastation of rape within society--A cancer diagnosis--The Book of Hags addresses the prevalence of cancer diagnoses among young women--Metzger observes the distress among young women in her classes--Sense of silence and repression causing cancer--Jobs open up for women who are prepared to function as men--More on concern with the issue of women's culture--Sense of the importance of healing the underlying condition that caused the cancer--The loss of wisdom traditions in American life--The valuable work of Alcoholics Anonymous in bringing forth a sense of common ills--More on Metzger's cancer diagnosis--Treatment options--The Center for the Healing Arts--Metzger's cancer treatment--The aftermath of the surgery--Metzger's chest tattoo--Problem women were having with breast implants--More on Metzger's chest tattoo--The cover for the book Tree is the famous poster of the tattoo--Kept two separate journals during the cancer journey.
Travels to Chile in 1972 with David Kunzle--Encounters book How to Read Donald Duck--The political climate in Chile during the Salvador Allende administration--Meets Ariel Dorfman--September 18th celebrations in Chile--Security concerns among people on the left leading up to the coup--Sense of optimism and hope in Chile during the Allende period--Metzger and Kunzle travel to Cuba with the political graphics show--Margaret Randall--The absence of racial prejudice in Cuba--Lisandro Otero's book--Censorship in Cuba--Attitudes toward homosexuality in Cuba--More on censorship in Cuba--High rate of literacy in Cuba and appreciation of literature--Metzger's travels prior to the Chile and Cuba trips--Metzger's sense of warmth in the socialism practiced in Chile and Cuba--The dour Russian advisors in Nicaragua in the eighties--Fears of an attempt on Allende's life--Dancing in the rain on September 18th--Metzger wishes to bring the warmth and concern for others that she perceives in Latin America to the Woman’s Building, as well as the sense of a broader context of suffering--The brilliant literature in Latin America: politically conscious and imaginative--Pablo Neruda's death--The elevator operators at the Havana Hilton--Grief in Cuba in response to the coup in Chile--Flies on a last flight out of Cuba after the Chilean coup--Chile with Poems and Guns: a film on the Chilean labor movement--Rumors of U.S. involvement in the coup--The fate of Charles Horman depicted in the film Missing--Production of the film Chile with Poems and Guns--Concerns about the fate of friends in the aftermath of the coup--Sense of profound personal sadness at the end of the movement in Chile--A persistent split in America between sensibilities of people and government policies--Metzger's efforts to bring Ariel Dorfman and his family to the United States--A fortuitous first introduction to writing from Latin America--Seeks to understand whether Julio Cortazar's writing speaks to his own experience or is a literary device--Cortazar's story "The Bestiary"--Meets Cortazar--Influence of Cortazar's sensibility on Metzger's work--Cortazar's dismay over the political climate in Latin America--Cortazar's death--Reviews a book of stories by Cortazar for the L.A. Weekly--Metzger's writing on Latin America--The Travelling Jewish Theatre--Play "Coming from a Great Distance" from the Traveling Jewish Theatre--A dream that presages Metzger's cancer diagnosis--Metzger's sense that cancer is silence--The re-visioning medicine initiative--Metzger's epiphany that speaking about spirit is all important in her life--The realization that spirit guides through story--How Metzger's work with indigenous communities led to this realization about the sacred in everyday life--The challenge of speaking publicly about the importance of spirit.
Works with Traveling Jewish Theatre--The play Dreams against the State--The Eleusinian Mysteries--Performing the Eleusinian Mysteries--The discovery of an artifact at the Eleusinian Mysteries site--Performs Dreams against the State at five hundred sites across the United States--The notion of "going underground"--Staging Dreams against the State--Moves to Topanga Canyon--Lives in a wilderness setting--A developing relationship with animals--The house in Topanga Canyon--Animal neighbors--Begins re-visioning medicine--Origin of the term "Tree" as a title for the book--The notion of cancer as a metaphor for the political landscape--The importance of indigenous cultures for Metzger's thinking--Enters psychoanalysis--Metzger's support of revolution in Nicaragua--Considers a trip to Nicaragua during the struggle--The healing possibilities of psychoanalysis--Problems with the field of psychology--The post-revolutionary climate in Nicaragua--A talk on personal disarmament at the United Nations conference on women in Nairobi--The impact of the inner life on political thought--Writes What Dinah Thought.
Metzger’s concept of personal disarmament--Impact of women’s movement on direction of writing--Visits Nazi death camps, which prompts writing The Other Hand--Circumstances leading up to writing Intimate Nature: The Bond Between Women and Animals--Travels to Africa and interacts with a group of elephants and with its leader, the “Elephant Ambassador”--Founds the Daré group based on experience in Africa--Activities at a typical Daré meeting--Daré participants--The importance to Metzger of the practice of sitting in council--Reasons participants attend Daré.
Influence of Victor Perera on La Negra y Blanca--The Heart of the World—The film Aluna--Told about a book in a dream--Begins to work with Everyday Gandhis--A film by Cindy Travis on peace building--Learns about the attack on the World Trade Center in 2001 while in Zimbabwe--Seeks guidance from Stephen Karcher, an I Ching scholar--Publishes Entering the Ghost River on September 11, 2002--Readings from Entering the Ghost River on the events of September 11, 2001--Seeks stories that are conducive to healing in Entering the Ghost River--Metzger’s work in becoming a healer documented in Entering the Ghost River--Begins Hand to Hand Publishing--Metzger’s work aims to bring people together in discussion--Current work, A Rain of Dark Birds--Visits the Hanford nuclear site--The importance of community to Metzger’s writing process--The ReVisioning Medicine project--Metzger’s notion of the literature of restoration as narratives that promote healing--The beauty inherent in healing is emphasized in ReVisioning Medicine--Historical pressure points on Metzger’s work--Metzger’s profound distress at the American war-oriented posture--The importance of continuing to be a witness to the suffering of the earth and its people--Visits the Hanford nuclear site--Concerns about the Fukushima nuclear reactor site.
Red Hen Press--The lasting meaning of The Other Hand--Blackfoot Physics, an investigation of Native American science--Metzger’s current work on A Rain of Night Birds--The influence of Julio Cortazar on Metzger’s work—Metzger's Doors: A Fiction For Jazz Horn--Strategies of narration in Doors--Writing the end of Doors--The sense of writing as participating in a vital, living dialogue--The structure of A Rain of Night Birds and its characters--The concept of reality in Metzger’s work--From Grief into Vision--The theme of a horrific state of affairs environmentally and politically and the counterpoint instances of human enlightenment and of divinity--Crafting the book as a “council” to bring in a multiplicity of views on the natural world--The council process--Ruin and Beauty: New and Selected Poems--The poem “Vulture Medicine”--Metzger’s lifelong investigation of the nature of the divine--The importance of taking sabbatical--The decimation of the landscape around the Hanford nuclear site, a former ritual site of the Yakima tribe--The unique communicative power of poetry--Metzger’s self-teaching in the art of writing --The value of self-teaching—Metzger's novel Feral--Readings from Feral--The story of Feral--The nature of psychological treatment in Western medicine--The waiting room space in medicine--Readings from Feral--The themes of La Negra y Blanca--Receives an Oakland PEN award for La Negra y Blanca--The cover for La Negra y Blanca taken from a mural by Francisco Letelier--More on the themes of La Negra y Blanca--Metzger’s writing pace--Metzger’s current project, A Rain of Night Birds--Metzger’s research process--The Literature of Restoration.